Assurance of salvation?
I’d really love to hear thoughts on this one. Do you believe that a person can lose salvation? And if so, how? And if not, why not?
Let’s take my term of salvation to mean what I believe, which is that by faith in Jesus Christ we are reconciled to God both now and for eternity, and given the Holy Spirit as a gift, testimony, and voice to us and others. Someone that has confessed with their mouth their belief that Jesus is indeed Lord and believes in faith that He has been raised from the dead and that we are justified through His work and not ours (Romans 10:9)….someone who understands the crazy magnitude of the Gospel as an all-encompassing “Good News” that reaches into every aspect of our lives.
So, coming from something similar to what I’ve written above, regardless of whether you believe this or not, do you see problems with this? Do you think that someone can “lose their salvation”? I know that there are people that believe in the Gospel and Jesus as Lord who believe their salvation is not assured, and they back this up with verses from Scripture.
I know people that would say that they used to believe in Jesus, but now they’re not sure they want any part of it, and they wouldn’t say their “Christians” anymore. What do you think about this? Do you think someone can firmly believe it at some point and then decide they don’t, and would this mean they’re no longer “saved”? Do you see where I’m going? I hope so, because it’s hard to articulate right now.
I’d love to hear what you think, why, and even arguments you’ve heard the other way that don’t make sense to you. Or things you’re not sure of.
Let’s engage…if I get discussions going, I’ll give my thoughts, but if not, I’ll post them some other time soon.
Great entry! I believe that salvation is permanent. It can’t be called eternal life if it can be lost. Once you are saved you are “stuck” being saved whether you like it or not. You can turn your back on God and stray away from the faith but he will still save you. It’s his promise to you and not conditional on your actions.
Good thoughts Chris, thanks for commenting!
Ok, it’s late… I’ve had one or the other beer
and I haven’t been pondering this topic at all… So just spontaneous thoughts here:
One big term in christian belief is “Free Will”, christians talk about this a lot. God loving man so much, that he gave him a free will to decide for or against God. Wouldn’t this free Will be comprimized if Man only had free will for one choice, and after he decided for God he is “stuck”, as Chris Campbell stated so fittingly?
I mean a few years ago, I surely would’ve said I am a christian and believe what you wrote up there, now I am not sure what I believe or if I would call myself a “christian” (whatever that really means). Today I would say I was just not questioning my upbringing back then, and accepting things without questioning them. So why would God not let you “change your mind”? And if anyone wants to answer “because he loves you and he wants to save you, or not to lose you” (or something simular), then remember that God “isn’t allowed to” compromise your free will, or else he would influence people who haven’t made a decision yet more than he does now.
I don’t know… if I think of something else tomorrow, when I am more awake then I’ll add it, These were my 2 cents so far…
Greetings from Deutschland,
-=David=-
david, i would say something about you and my favorite goering and all that, but you’ve heard it enough.
No, but seriously, thanks so much for what you wrote, I don’t have time to digest it right now, but those are good thoughts, and as soon as I have time to think and process through what you said, I will write back. Add more!!!
Greetings from NEEEEEEbraska
Hey Jodi,
sorry this is a little late, and this will have to be short! I only have about 2 min….sorry
Well my thoughts are that I wonder how much Paul or Luke or John thought about the tpoic themselves. If we look at Hebrews 4 (I think) then we see the presupposition of being able to lose your salvation. Look at Ephesians 1 we see that Paul writes implicitly about not being able to lose your salvation!
I think, however, that the authors of the Bible are clear about believers NOT being able to lose their salvation. A believing Christian will not be separated from God by sin - I feel that the Bible is very clear about that. But if you willingly deny God, well that’s where it gets tricky, and where the Bible leaves us with a question mark. I would say - let God judge that case!
Thanks for posting, Chris, David & Timothy! Okay, here’s a short response from me (short is relative). These are just my initial thoughts, without going into “perseverance of saints,” which I believe, or deep theological discussions.
I don’t believe that someone can lose their salvation. For a couple reasons. Firstly, in order for me to be able to influence whether or not I have retained or lost my salvation, it comes down to me having some sort of influence, control, say, partnership in how, when, and to what degree God’s grace and forgiveness is given. It comes down to a power thing, in my opinion. It might sound backward, but I think it does come down to me believing that I can influence God’s mercy and grace and forgiveness and my relationship wtih Him, His view of me. I don’t believe I can. I believe that I can and have to believe in His outpouring of freedom and love offered in forgiveness and restoration to how He designed me to be, but that is it. There’s nothing I’ve done to deserve it, and there’s nothing I’ve done that can change it. There’s nothing I have control over, but to surrender to this hand extended to me. If I could lose my salvation, it would again come down to set rules, laws, and things that I had to do and maintain in order to *not* lose my salvation, this new creation that God has made me into. How can the born be unborn? How can the new be made back into the old? (2 Cor 5:17). It no longer has to do with God’s ultimate authority and Him ruling the entire Universe and having the capacity and desire to extend grace and mercy (Titus 3:5) regardless of the dirty rags we have to offer Him (Isaiah 64:6), but it’s all about me having some sort of redeeming capabilities in my life and in some way or another, power. It’s not about Jesus and the Gospel of redeeming grace anymore, it’s about me. That’s what is so great about the Gospel. I mean, really, when you get down to it, it’s pretty amazing. We all have pride, greed, selfishess, but God made it clear that nothing we do can ever find us redemption, and at first that might sound a little scary and offensive, but when you really think about it, that is pure freedom right there. I can never redeem myself, it’s hopeless, and therefore I rely on God completely and totally, and He has designed it that way (Romans 3:21-31 & Romans 4:1-4).
And that makes me love Him with a love that I can’t explain, even though I can try of course, and gives me complete freedom.
The Bible says nothing can separate us from the love of God (Romans 8:38), that we can never be taken from him (John 10:25-30).
Secondly, I think my favorite message of the Bible is the story of the prodigal son. I mean, I believe that God is like a father in that we do become part of this “family” through believing in His message, and no matter what that son does, whether he changes his name, whether he runs away, whether he curses his father, his father has ultimate authority in the family, and will always see that man as his son, in his family, because he is the authority, and he holds the name and the title. He has control of the name, and that son may not want to be in that family anymore, but He is still loved and yearned for by, and He still belongs to that Father. No matter what He does.
DAVID - I get your answer, but if the Bible says “no one” can snatch them from God’s hand, wouldn’t that include you? Also, in 1 Peter 1:4-5, the bible says that God will protect us until we receive our salvation, and the Greek word there means not only “protect from attack,” but also “kept from escaping.” Sometimes the best thing God does is save us from ourselves! And besides, I don’t think that argument stands up because if you were actually in a situation where you would need to “jump out”, that would mean that that situation was therefore in fact, true (a reality), which would mean that the message of the Gospel is truth, and I’m not sure why you’d want to jump out of truth?
hey.
this is my first post here.
i totally agree with all that you (jodi) had to say about assurance of salvation. it´s what the bible says. but i also found these verses i find hard to combine with what the verses you quoted say.
(NIV)
1. hebrews 3: 12-14 “see to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living god. 13 but encourage one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin´s deceitfulness. 14 we have come to share in christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
2. hebrews 6: 4-6 “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the holy spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of god and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the son of god all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”
3. hebrews 10: 26-27 “if we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expactation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of god.”
4. romans 11: 22 “consider therefore the kindness and sternness of god: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. otherwise, you also will be cut off.”
5. 2. peter 2: 20-21 “if they have escaped the the corruption of the the world by knowing our lord and savior jesus christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off than at the beginning. 21 it would have been better fpr them to not have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.”
6. 1. timothy 1: 19 “…some have rejected these (faith and a good conscience) and so have shipwrecked their faith.”
7. 1. timothy 4: 1 “the spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and and will follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.”
8. colossians 1: 22-23 “but now he has reconciled you by christ´s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation - 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. …”
9. galatians 5: 4 “you who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
10. revelation 3: 5 “he who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. i will never blot out his name from the book of life but will acknowledge his name before my father and his angels.”
11. 1 corinthians 15: 2 “by this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word i preached to you. otherwise you have believed in vain.”
so bottom line, i must agree with what timothy said. there are verses that indicate unconditional assurance of salvation, and there are those that define salvation as a conditional thing, something that can be lost.
now i´ve heard explanations for the verses i quoted above. we can say that paul, or peter, didn´t mean eternal salvation in this or that verse, instead he meant prosperity, or wealth, or success. or, the if isn´t conditional here, but factual.
but to be honest, the verses here sound pretty much just as obvious as do those, which speak of the assurance of salvation.
Short answer - no you cannot.
I think sometimes when we try and use our logic to understand something we run into problems, that’s why I like that you went to scripture!
You mentioned John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
The Bible talks about how we are adopted as God’s children. (We were predestined to be adopted as His sons – Eph. 1:4-7) Here’s the interesting thing about adoption: in Roman law adoption was permanent, irreversible; an adopted son was part of the family forever – even if he disgraced the family. We have the same security.
Another thing (I heard this in mentoring): Christ died for our sins (all of them) at the cross. He already knew all the sins I was going to commit – he died for all of my sins before I was even born. Forgiveness came from the cross. I just think that is interesting to point out, because it’s not like you get saved and then later do something so heinous that just shocks God and He decides, “oh, you can’t be my child anymore.”
Here is something I read:
“Regarding losing our salvation: Salvation is offered us purely through Jesus’ death on the cross for us, as a gift of His grace. We, through Christ alone, from the moment we receive Him into our lives, become His child, declared righteous, forgiven, sanctified in His eyes, and have entered a relationship with Him which He intends to be permanent, with the promise of eternal life. This does not hinge on our personal holiness, or levels of faith, or sacrifices, or good works or religious acts. Salvation through Jesus is purely God’s gift, received once by faith. At that moment we have crossed over from death into life, free from the condemnation of the law and placed under His grace, transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light, no longer enemies of God but His child, sealed with the Holy Spirit within us, He has become our God and we His child, and we are at peace with God, reconciled to Him.”
Some of these verses were given as support:
Romans 5:8 - But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:1-2 - Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.
Romans 6:22-23 - But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Hebrews 9:15 - For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
Hebrews 8:12 - For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”
Romans 3:22-24 - This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Romans 10:4 - Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Ephesians 1:13,14 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
John 5:24 - “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
1 John 5:11-13 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Obviously, it’s easy to find one verse in scripture and twist it to mean whatever we want. But I think if we look at scripture as a whole, in context, and see God’s redemptive plan for us and His long-suffering and His lovingkindness (lit. - “intense loyalty”), then I think it becomes much easier to understand.
I just have to say, people, I am proud of us for this discussion. Hi fives to everyone, except those of you that think that’s girly, and then I give you pats on the back.
Okay, so I’ve read what jesse and james have to say, and I was wondering, if anyone still reads this post, what others think about the verses jesse posted? I’ve already told Jesse what I think. But I want to hear other thoughts, if you would be so inclined. Thanks, for all the time and thought you guys put into this, I really am enjoying it.
Again, I’m at work so I threw this together quick, so again, please don’t take my word for it – look up these passages yourself!
Found some stuff about the Hebrews passages. I had heard this about Hebrews 6 before:
This is a very interesting point because IF you could lose your salvation, and then it was impossible to get saved again, now God is unable to save all who believe and call upon His name – which raises a whole bunch of problems with scripture. So with that understood, I think we must come to the conclusion that it is indeed a hypothetical situation or an argument in absurdity.
And here’s what I found on Hebrews 10:
I think it is key that he mentions 1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
1 John talks all about knowing whether you are saved – the key verse in 1 John is 5:13 – “…so that you may know that you have eternal life.”
I understand Jesse’s point, that at first glance there appears to be a mutual incompatibility. But since scripture is God’s word and it doesn’t contradict itself, we must understand those apparent conflicts to be a problem with OUR understanding, not a problem with God’s design. And then we must look at the context of God’s redemptive work throughout the whole of scripture and see what is consistently revealed.
Hey James! Thanks for writing all of this, I appreciate your time and efforts, especially with the wedding coming up! I’m going to respond to your comment on a new post…
[...] I just wanted to say a few things in response to my assurance of salvation comments, and then some things I read that I thought were interesting this weekend. [...]
Yes, Salvation is a Gift of God given to you to Enjoy your Life with the Freedom by faith in love through grace.
Assurance comes to you as you Walk with the Lord, as you change each day, as you grow close to God, as you hear Him every day, as you see His face through the Word and lead by the Spirit.
Assurance is not just an internal feeling but external reality of life and witness. Peopel see and witness that you are chaged when you really keep up the Cup of Salvation with fear and trembling.
Thank you for all your efforts. I came to the Lord at 17 and I feel the Lord everyday in my life. I feel assured and comforted by the Holy Spirit in all circumstances and situations.
Thank you for your comment, Pramod. Its always a blessing to hear from a brother.