“Yes, it is based on the Bible”
There is a Christian Science Reading Room down 13th St. half a block from where I work, and when Tyler comes to visit me, we usually walk right by in on our way to the Holiday gas station where I get a 32 ounce fountain drink - filled 95% with Diet Pepsi and 5% with Dr. Pepper (there’s no root beer).
Today Tyler wanted to stop in, so we did, and we talked to a really nice older gentleman by the name of Maurice for about 15 minutes. We asked him some things about Christian Science, trying to figure out what is different from “traditional western” Christianity. So he told us that Christian Science is based on the Bible (after Tyler asked this question), and that they believe that we can use science to understand how Jesus healed, and prove it, and therefore do it ourselves, logically. He said, “There are some things that seem quite radical at first, until you get used to them,” with a chuckle.
So, that’s fine and dandy, it’s interesting to learn first hand from someone that believes something different than me, and I really would rather hear it from them than read it or hear it from someone that believes the same as me (in most cases).
We talked for a little bit about the founder, Mary Baker Eddy, and such, and I went over to look at something that seemed like a doctrinal statement, which seemed a little sketchy. Somehow it seemed to say that evil is unreal, and some vague things about Jesus and the Christ…(I just tried to look up the 6 tenants of faith, but I had to buy a book).
One key point is this:
“…Jesus Christ is not God, as Jesus himself declared, but is the Son of God.” (Science and Health, 361:12-13)
Another is:
“Heaven is not a locality, but a divine state of Mind in which all the manifestations of Mind are harmonious and immortal. . . .” (Science and Health, 291:13-16)
And don’t forget these points:
“Man is deathless, spiritual. He is above sin or frailty.” (Science and Health, 266:29-30)
“Christ came to destroy the belief of sin.” (Science and Health, 473:6-7)
“No final judgment awaits mortals, for the judgment-day of wisdom comes hourly and continually, even the judgment by which mortal man in divested of all material error.” (Science and Health, 291:28-31)
And……I would say…..
Not Biblical.
Hello Jodi - interesting visit you had in the Reading Room.
Question: where did you get those quotes which lead you to the conclusion ‘not biblical’?
Did Maurice point them out to you?
re your first ‘key point’ “Jesus Christ is not God…”
17 times in the Gospels, Jesus says “follow me”. NOT ONCE does he say ‘worship me’.
so as a 7 decades + student of Christian Science, I follow Jesus, and worship God.
next is your point about heaven not being a locality.
you disagree with this?
try reading Luke 17:20-21, where Jesus specifically says the kingdom is not a locality (not here, nor there), but is within each of us.
what I think you can say accurately is that the points mentioned do not agree with your interpretation of the Bible.
You might find it useful to read Science & Health with Key to the Scriptures, by Mary Baker Eddy, before passing judgment upon the religion.
it is very easy, as you know, to prove just about anything by taking biblical statements out of context; and the solution for thinkers is to read the entire volume for themselves, in order to grasp what it is saying as a whole.
the same thing applies to Science and Health.
Incidentally, if you’re interested, the tenets can be found on page 497 of Science and Health (click the above link), at the top of the page.
regards,
Verndigger
oo, Verndigger,
Thanks so much for responding and posting on my website, I appreciate you reading and responding.
And thanks for the link to the science and health book, that helps a lot.
Verndigger,
Nice of you to stop by Jodi’s blog! I think you are right, in the sense that Jesus points us to the Father. However, Scripture seems to say to me that Jesus is also as much God as the Father is. For instance, how do you interpret John 1:1-18?
I also think, since he is God, he is worthy of praise. For instance, I don’t see Jesus rebuking the disciples worshiping him in Matthew 14:32-33, 28:9-10 or 28:17. If he is not God and worthy of worship, it would have been sinful for him to not rebuke this worship as a sign of idolatry. God also commands the angels to worship Jesus in Hebrews 1:6.
Do you see those examples breaking the 1st or 2nd commandments given by God to Moses on Mount Sinai?
Hello Jodi,sorry for the long delay, I just picked up that you had replied.
thanks for your courteous reply - hope you’ve been at least glancing at Science and Health, to get a more accurate view.
and to JESS: thanks also for the courteous tone - as I stated previously, Jesus said FOLLOW me, not WORSHIP me.
when I first discovered that there were folks who believed Jesus to be God, I was literally flabbergasted.
I know all the arguments, the “I am’s” etcetera.
yet simple logic tells me this is not, cannot be the case.
God on the cross crying out “my God my God why hast Thou forsaken me?” ??
God telling his disciples(then and now) they
can not only do all the works He has done, but GREATER works?
my understanding is that the decision that Jesus was God was made at the Nicene conference, by a majority vote of the bishops present; an attempt by Constantine to unify Christians under his rule.
Christian Science makes a distinction between Jesus and the Christ. Jesus was the “highest human concept of the perfect man”. [S&H 482:19], and the highest representative of the Christ.
But all of God’s children have the Christ-spark within.
Jesus never said to anyone “I am God, worship me”.
but he DID tell someone not to call him ‘good’, see Matt 19:17 - the same quote is also in Mark and Luke.
I have had this debate many times over the past 15 or so years, and don’t wish to have it again.
Christian Scientists fully accept the divinity of the Christ.
when I think about this seemingly deep divide between CS and other Christian doctrines, I feel there is really a very fine line, and it would be really terrific if we tried to understand one another better, instead of condemning.
over the years I have realized just how deep this belief - of Jesus being God - goes for many people - it is deeply rooted, and they believe it with utter sincerity.
But I read recently of a Bishop who felt that this deeply rooted belief of many Christians was responsible for turning Christianity away from healing for many centuries. - if Jesus was God doing these healings, how can ‘I’ possibly be expected to do the same?
yet he did tell us to get out there and “heal the sick! cleanse the leper! raise the dead!”
and people are being healed every day in Christian Science, through the power of the Christ, as Jesus commanded.
JODI, if you know Jess, please let him know I have *finally* replied… :-))
blessings to you both,
Verndigger
Verndigger,
First, let me thank you for your wedding wishes. I have enjoyed reading your comments and had a few questions of my own. Do you believe that the bible is the true word of God? (2 Tim. 3:16) If so, what are your thoughts on Romans 9:5, “…And he (Christ) is God, who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise!”? Additionally, I agree that we have the ability to heal, through the Holy Spirit. The spirit gives us the gifts to heal and many other abilities. But that ability is not on our own power, it is given to us by God, through the spirit. Therefore, through the Trinity, I believe that God himself dwells in us. We do not try to become Christ, because we are marred with sin. However, through God’s sanctification and grace we become more in tune with the spirit, and closer to Christ. The only thing that scares me about C.S. is the Jesus tells us he is the only way to our father. (John 14:6) So, if you believe that the bible is the only true word of God, then you have to believe that Jesus is the only one who can cover our sins and make us “white as snow” in God’s eyes.
Much Love,
Tyler
Hello Tyler; I have no desire to get into a theological debate here; in my experience it simply is not productive. neither side ever changes their mind.
however, in an attempt at better understanding, the answer to your first question is given in the first tenet of CS (from page 497 of Science and Health)
” 1. As adherents of Truth, we take the inspired Word of the Bible as our sufficient guide to eternal Life.”
as for Romans 9:5, don’t what translation you’re quoting from, this is the KJV
” 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.”
which doesn’t say to me that Christ is God.
here are two other translations of that verse:
“5 they are descended from the famous Hebrew ancestors; and Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race. May God, who rules over all, be praised forever! Amen.” [gnb]
“5 They have those famous ancestors, who were also the ancestors of Jesus Christ. I pray that God, who rules over all, will be praised forever! Amen.”
Tyler, it is so easy today for various Christian denominations to cut one another up; but Christian Science has taught me to *respect* other faiths, and to spend my time “letting my light shine” that our Fater may be glorified.
so I don’t deride your belief that Jesus is God, nor do I judge it.
I just don’t agree with it; you find lots of ‘proof’ that he is, I find lots that he isn’t.
Christian Science affirms fully the divinity of the Christ, and sees Jesus ‘the Christ’ as the divinely appointed human being who revealed the Christ to humanity.
we read the entire Bible, not just selected portions of it. I have read the entire Bible right through 3 times, using a different translation each time.
we strive daily to *live* our understanding of Christian behaviour.
Jesus said “by their fruits ye shall know them” - so let us both follow Christ in our own way, and be judged by our fruits, as the Master said.
Numbers 6:24-26 to you and Jodi,
Vern
P.S. - if you want to see how Christian Science can work, there is a wonderful book called “the ultimate freedom” by John Wyndham,
who was incarcerated in a Japanese prison camp during WWII.
it’s a small book, can be read in one sitting easily.
read it, and see if you don’t that man was living Christianity!
blessings,
Vern